Dr. Leigh Weisz: 21:38
We’re wired for that for sure. Yes.
Nina Badzin: 21:40
I think it’s okay to also bring it up with your friend and say, I’m not asking you to do anything. I’m not asking you to get my kid invited. I just want you to know that this is really hard for me. And I don’t want to be upset at you, and I just. Can we just please acknowledge this is horrible, and your friend is probably going to be like.
Thank you. I didn’t know what to say. Yes. This is horrible, I hate this. And together as parents, you can help each other just through these awful years.
But helping each other does not necessarily mean fixing it for the kids.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 22:09
Yeah.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 22:09
No, I totally think that’s spot on. Yeah. Spot on. And this is this is what I say. Like, even though you’re not a mental health expert, you clearly get it.
And again.
Nina Badzin: 22:18
Oh thank.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 22:18
You. After ten years of immersing yourself in this world and hearing real anecdotes from people. But yes, I think you’re right. Just kind of like pushing it in the corner. Most likely feelings will fester and you know it will affect your own adult friendships.
So it is important to like, have some kind of conversation. But the goal isn’t always to intervene and to kind of like meddle in a way that often, again, just just doesn’t really work.
Nina Badzin: 22:45
Yeah.
Nina Badzin: 22:45
There’s a word for the meddling, which I’m sure you hear about, which is social engineering. And it happens a lot. There’s a great example is I can see this image of a parent on the camp bus picking out the seat for their kid, making sure that the the two kids that are supposed to sit together have the best seat with the best snacks, and it’s in the best location next to certain kids. And there’s a lot of that that goes on.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 23:10
And it happens.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 23:11
For good reason, you know? In other words, the parents feel anxiety in those moments with their kid, right? And again, we’re wired for this attachment relationship from, you know, from birth. Right. So you’re really like you’re as the parent concerned that if they’re anxious you’re going to feel that anxiety.
And it’s so hard. But parents are going to need to over time. And it happens more naturally when kids get older. Learn to take some deep breaths, learn to like, understand that even if their kid isn’t in the perfect seat or the perfect situation, they’re going to get through it and build skills for life, right? Because there’s going to be more situations that are uncomfortable in the future.
But I think parents and kids, like we’re all learning how to tolerate that feeling.
Nina Badzin: 23:55
Yes.
Nina Badzin: 23:55
It’s so I love how you said that, that tolerating discomfort is really a difficult skill for kids, obviously, but also for adults. And sometimes, by the way, I have found in my own life and I’ve seen it with the people I talk to, the kids are actually okay. The grown ups really are really more upset, and I’ve seen it a thousand times where I’ve been upset, just personally, that a kid of mine isn’t included in something and they don’t even care.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:19
Wow. I care. It’s a good wake up call. Yeah, it is a.
Nina Badzin: 24:22
Wake up call. It’s like I’ll have a stomach ache and it’s like, wait, why do I have a stomach ache over a sixth graders social experience? That’s when you have to step back as a parent and kind of get a hold of yourself. And I don’t mean that in a demeaning way. I mean, truly, like you’re saying, the deep breaths, the.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:36
Just.
Nina Badzin: 24:36
Self-talking and being like, sometimes you have to be like, you’re okay. And and it is okay for the kids to have an experience where they have to learn how to figure out who they really are friends with, who is a true friend, right? You don’t know who your true friends are. If your parents have been doing favors or getting favors from their friends on your behalf for so many years.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:57
No.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:57
For sure. And I always ask parents too, if they’re like you’re saying, if they’re having a really big emotional reaction that feels particularly intense, you know, is there something about the situation that’s reminiscent in some way to you of something from earlier in your life? Like maybe like you’re saying the camp bus, you have a horrible, traumatic memory from that time. And so, like you said, your kid may actually be totally fine and the personality may be different and they may be navigating it without issue. But for you, you have this like terrible memory of that experience.
So it is important to check in with yourself when you’re having big emotional reactions to to figure out what’s mine, what’s theirs. How can I make this better and at worst for them and or just really not involve myself?
Nina Badzin: 25:41
Yeah, takes takes a lot of self control. It’s hard.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 25:44
So tell.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 25:44
Us, Nina, in terms of skills that you feel are important to model for your kids, right? Because again, friendships happen in the adult world. And then I do think there’s parts that trickle down to your kids in terms of what they observe. What would you say are some of the most important skills you can? You can name us like 2 or 3.
Nina Badzin: 26:03
Okay, my favorite one. And I think it is really underrated and it’s going to be so basic. I think you’re going to laugh.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 26:10
No.
Nina Badzin: 26:11
You should be friends with people you like. You as an adult should model that by not constantly complaining about your friends in front of your kids. Complaining even if it’s to your partner, whoever. If you are constantly complaining about your friends and people do, adults do. Maybe you don’t like your friends.
Maybe you don’t like the people you’re hanging out with. Maybe you just felt those were the people you were supposed to be with. They were the other parents at the school you’re at. You should be friends with people you like, and this is something to model for your kids. And this goes into back to the Halloween plans and all of that.
Maybe trying to get into a certain group means that you have lost touch with would you actually like these kids or is it a parent? Do you actually like these parents that you’re hanging out with? Not all your friends need to be parents.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 26:59
But this group.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:01
That you somehow landed in?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:02
Yes.
Nina Badzin: 27:04
If you’re always striving, chasing, feeling like you’re not part of something like first step back and say like, hold on, do these people bring out the best in me? Do I actually like these people? If I find myself constantly gossiping about these people, or complaining about them, or having issue or always getting into, you know, beef, as the kids say, maybe we don’t like each other, and it’s very basic, but sometimes it’s easy to forget that friendship is a choice, and you should be friends with people that you like.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:35
Yeah, I was just going to.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:35
Say you just you just I said, I hear the word choice.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:38
Right? Yes, yes.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:39
It’s empowering. For both adults and for kids and teens to recognize that there is choice. And I know for kids again, middle school, high school, it’s a little trickier to navigate changing groups in the whole. Oh yeah. But but it is still empowering.
And it’s still accurate that there ultimately is choice in who your close friends are. And you want to, again, empower them to know that about themselves and know that they can find these people, whether it’s now or in the future, even if they feel stuck sometimes.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 28:08
Yeah.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 28:09
And you’re right. Adults, I think, get stuck too, sometimes in the wrong, in the wrong group somehow. And just because you’re in a tennis group Tuesdays at five and you play with the same women, like if these aren’t your people, you know you need to figure that out and not, like you said, just come home and complain about them.
Nina Badzin: 28:25
Exactly. And back to the group. If you’re part of a group and it doesn’t feel that natural with everyone, you have the choice to lean towards the one that you like more. Reach out to them on the side. Ask somebody for plans on the side that you really enjoy.
Go on a walk with the one that you connect with the most, so that when you are in a group setting again for kids or adults, you feel like you have an ally of some kind. You feel closer with 1 or 2 of them. It’s okay to not be with everyone all the time.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 28:53
100% I was going to say I think groups are tricky at any stage. I mean, even like the 80 year olds, right? Have stories about groups and the cliques. And I’m like, oh my gosh, does it never change? You know?
And they’re like, nope. So the idea that like, you know, connection is often fostered in a much more genuine way, in a healthier way, when there’s like one on one time, you know, and really being vulnerable with each other and sharing and supporting one another. And in a group, it’s not that it’s not fine to have group time. It’s fun. There’s different things you do in a group, but it’s not going to, like you say, give you that same feeling as when you have a really a friendship that you can identify.
This person is my friend.
Nina Badzin: 29:35
Yes, exactly. Okay. Another skill for making friends and keeping friends. It goes in both areas and it’s another really basic thing people forget about. And that is to ask a lot of questions.
It’s a great thing to model. It’s a great thing to do as an adult and a kid with your friends. And I love the book Talk by Alison Wood Brooks. She is it’s a it’s a more current book. It was out in the past I think in 2025.
She so talk and it’s an acronym that stands for a lot of things that people have to read about in the book. Her name is Alison Wood Brooks. She’s a professor at Harvard Business School. One of the best things in that book, I thought, was so the A is for asking questions. The A in talk.
And she talks about how they’ve done studies. She conducted the studies in at Harvard. People do not ask even nearly as many questions as they think they do. So she would have these people do conversations and then she would ask them after, okay, well, how many questions did you ask? And everybody overestimate.
Well, maybe not everybody, but most people overestimated the amount of questions they asked. And they did this study with a lot of people. I thought that was so interesting. And it goes to show that we think we’re being more engaging than we are. And people like to be asked questions.
That’s another thing I hear a lot about from people is they feel their friends never show interest.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 30:54
Yeah.
Nina Badzin: 30:54
So I ask all the questions. Yeah. So showing interest, asking questions and asking way more questions than you think. It also takes the pressure off. If you’re somebody who is worried about what you have to bring to a conversation, you can always rely on asking questions.
That’s the best thing to bring to a conversation.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 31:15
I love that, and we talk about that again with younger kids. You know, like we kind of try to when they’re really little, we’ll take a ball and we’ll throw it to them and they’ll have to ask a question and then, you know, throw it back just to kind of role play, how reciprocal conversation works. And a lot of it is asking questions. Right. And then you might add something.
But I think you’re absolutely right. People want to be able to talk about themselves. They feel like you care, which of course is genuine. When people really ask about you, you know that they care. So that’s a great skill.
I love that, and that could be again for any age.
Nina Badzin: 31:46
Yes. And a bonus tip that is tangential to that is not to wait for people to ask you questions. So that’s another thing in terms of conversation skills. That’s another thing I hear about a lot. Oh my friend, like I said, never ask me questions or I don’t feel like they care.
Some people aren’t as good at asking questions like, look, this Harvard Business study showed that most people don’t ask as many questions as they think. If there’s something that you want your friend to know about you, or you’re going through something, nobody’s a mind reader, bring it up. I’ve had to learn to do that with the podcast. So sometimes people don’t ask me about the podcast. I always say, I’m sure it’s because friends of mine, I’ve been talking about this stuff for over four years on the podcast, over a decade in just the right age.
I’m sure my friends have heard it all, and they’re a little nervous, I think, to ask me about it because they don’t want me to be like, oh, what did you think of episode 155? And they’re going to be like, oh my God, I didn’t listen. So I don’t wait for them to ask. I just let them know, oh, this is who I’m talking to next week. I’m so excited.
This is what we’re talking about. Do you have any opinions? I’d love to add it to the show. I just bring it up and then I don’t leave feeling resentful that we didn’t talk about it.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 32:55
I have a couple.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 32:55
Of clients who are young adults, and they will be very upset when their friends do not. And these are all women. Do not ask them about an important event in their life, like a graduation from graduate school or something pretty significant. And I will say to the to the client, you are a really thoughtful person. And they are these clients, these two girls, these two women would like, write the date down of someone else’s important milestone in their calendar.
They’re organized. They would remember to ask them that day, you know, or to congratulate them that day. Right, depending on the circumstance. But some people are lousy with dates. Some people, again, are just kind of in their own bubble sometimes.
But but they absolutely care. I mean, these were not bad friendships. And so like you’re saying, it’s okay to say I’m so excited. You know, next week’s the big graduation. Can you believe it?
You know, and to remind them, instead of assuming they don’t care because they didn’t ask, I love that.
Nina Badzin: 33:49
Yes. And and the way to measure that friendship is when you bring it up. Does the friend want to hear about it? Are they engaged? Do they then ask questions if they change the subject immediately?
Okay, maybe now this is a friendship issue. So you know how I said I’m just trying to help people get out of their own way? That’s a perfect example. It’s not a friendship issue. As long as your friend is enthusiastic when you bring it up.
That’s just, yeah, people have different skills. People are bad with dates. They really.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 34:16
Are.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 34:16
No, I mean birthdays, if I didn’t have again, I’ve got everything in my, you know, Google calendar, right? Everyone’s birthday. If I lost that, if I had a technological blip. I can’t tell you almost anyone’s birthday, right. Except maybe three in my entire life.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 34:32
You know? Yeah.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 34:33
I’m bad with dates. I’m not a numbers person. But, you know, because I’ve got an organized system and I care. I genuinely care about being a good friend and being a good, you know, family member. Like, I will call everyone on their birthday.
I will sing them a lovely birthday song. I will make sure they feel special. But yeah, it’s like not everybody is going to have that system in place and it doesn’t mean they don’t care.
Nina Badzin: 34:55
That’s right. You know, on my podcast I do Friendship challenges, and one of my challenges, I think it was in April, was to write down your friends birthdays in your calendar because as people are trying to get off social media a bit like I feel like there’s this, I don’t know, it’s like a movement, but I feel it in the atmosphere. People are really spending less time on Facebook, less time on Instagram and all that, which I think is great if we’re going to continue to encourage that, to be with friends in person and to actually have a real connection. We have relied on that for birthdays for a long time now. Yeah, probably 20 years.
A lot of us have been relying on Facebook for birthdays. Okay. If you’re going to spend less time on Facebook, you better write your friends birthdays down.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 35:34
Absolutely. Yeah. No.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 35:35
It’s true. And some people going back to your reciprocal idea, some people do these beautiful birthday posts that are like collages and this and that. And you have to do it right, right. When it’s their birthday. Well, I am terrible with all things Facebook and technology.
I’m really it’s not my world. And so I will pick up the phone and sing my birthday song.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 35:55
That’s beautiful. And I’ll say, just.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 35:57
So you know, I’m not doing a post because I don’t exactly know how to do it and they don’t care. But some people would read into that and be like, Lee doesn’t care about me. She didn’t post, so I just. You’re right. So it’s a really good nugget.
Give us one more skill before we kind of wind down. I want to make sure we get as much knowledge from you as we can.
Nina Badzin: 36:15
I’m trying to give you, like, less obvious ones. Like, obviously, you should be a good listener. Things like that. The the next one that I think is really important and adults absolutely have to model this is learning to develop a sense of discretion. We repeat a lot of things that we shouldn’t repeat, and it gets us.
It gets us in trouble. I’ve done it too. So I say, that’s why I say us. It gets you in trouble. A small example, if you have older kids might be.
Let’s think about the college admissions. And so there could be, you know, where your friend’s kids applying to school. Your friend told you like kind of offhand, they didn’t say it was a secret or not. Someone says to you, oh, where’s, where’s so and so? Applying.
It’s best to learn to say that maybe even a white lie like, oh, I don’t know. Or it sounds like a bunch of Midwest schools. So it’s good to learn a sense of discretion that other people’s news is not your fodder. Yeah, college admissions is sort of a low stakes one. It could be higher stakes and it is very hard.
I learned this from my mother, who is the most discreet person. It’s like I’m always trying to get stuff out of her. She will say nothing about anything. She she really. I’m like, mom and I admire it.
Actually. I’m learning from her that you don’t owe people information, especially other people’s information.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 37:39
Right.
Nina Badzin: 37:40
And and it’s just you want to be the kind of friend that people can confide in. And if you’re loose with people’s information, even accidentally. I actually like college admissions as an example, because this isn’t nobody’s trying to hurt anyone. This isn’t deeply personal, and yet you don’t know for sure that someone else wanted you to share that information. And if you prove to be somebody who is very loose with other people’s information, people are going to stop telling you things.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:06
Yeah.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:07
And in being able to, like you said, confide in someone or be confided in, right is often something that brings people closer and friendship. It’s a very important piece. And so like you’re saying, if you’re not trustworthy anymore in that arena, it’s less likely that people will open up to you on that level. They might still have coffee with you, or they might still play pickleball with you. But in terms of that deep, meaningful connection, you may risk losing it.
If someone starts to think you’re not someone who can be trusted with personal information.
Nina Badzin: 38:37
Yeah, and it’s an advanced skill because I’m not talking about gossip. Gossips are more obvious. Like, obviously you’re trying to, you know, maybe hurt somebody, right? That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about being too loose.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:49
Yeah.
Nina Badzin: 38:49
Not guarded enough.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:51
I love.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:51
That. I think that’s, like you said, not basic. I think that’s actually. Yeah, something that most adults, certainly kids, but most adults really could fine tune. And I love what you said, like having a white lie or a vague response is is okay, right.
Like because you’re protecting someone’s information that they shared. I think that’s beautiful. Or like, I don’t know, you should ask her.
Nina Badzin: 39:15
You know, I was just.
Nina Badzin: 39:16
Going to say that, Lee, I was a great answer. Sometimes when you don’t want to feel like you’re lying is. Oh, you should ask her. I don’t know if they’ve completely decided. You should ask her.
Which is a very nice way of saying. I’m not going to tell you.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 39:28
Yeah, that’s that’s what.
Nina Badzin: 39:29
It.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 39:29
Says. Absolutely.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 39:30
And the more you do that, the more people won’t actually pry for information because they’ll know that about you. Or I’m sure your mom. It sounds like they don’t ask her because they’re. She’s not the gossip of the town. She’s not the one who’s going to share freely, you know?
And so, yeah, it makes it a lot easier going forward to not have to be put in that situation.
Nina Badzin: 39:48
Yes, it is exactly right. If you can develop to be the kind of person people do not pry information from, you have done a very grown up thing and become discreet.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 39:59
Yeah, I love that.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 40:00
So what I’m hearing from you is that, you know, adult friendships on their own are incredibly important, right? For our health, for our happiness, for longevity. Right. All these things. And it’s important that we are able to help our kids by modeling these healthy friendships and that that’s a healthier way, especially as they get older than the meddling or the social engineering or the involving yourself.
And again, I also I hear you, I say that with with full respect and non-judgment because like you said, I’m a mom too. And, you know, both of us have been on the end where you really want to to pick up the phone and do something. And it may be that you have to share what’s happening, but like, not ask them to do something overtly for your kids. So I think it’s a really tricky thing to be helping your, your your kids with their friendships and yet right, we’re always put in that situation. So I love this idea of just like, how can you do it a little bit more indirectly through modeling?
Nina Badzin: 40:56
Yes.
Nina Badzin: 40:57
You can see how I’ve been writing about this for over a decade. It’s just endless.
Nina Badzin: 41:00
And.
Nina Badzin: 41:01
Ageless.
Nina Badzin: 41:02
Absolutely.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 41:03
So for the listeners who have enjoyed this episode and are kind of curious about learning more about friendship, whether it’s adult friendship or the parenting angle of friendship, what are some resources, whether books, articles, podcasts that you think they might enjoy?
Nina Badzin: 41:21
Well, obviously mine. Dear Nina and I for adult friendships, a book that I really have loved recently is by a friend of mine who I’ve met through writing about friendship. Her name is Anna Goldfarb and her book is called Modern Friendships and she is very practical also. She’s also a writer. She’s also, like me, a writer, a journalist, not a therapist.
She interviews a lot of people for the book, and she has this really nice visual ways of thinking about who are your close friends? Who’s that next tier? How do we develop that? Things like that. So it’s called modern friendship, which is a great word because things are different nowadays than when we were all kids.
And she’s about my age. And then I know we talked about her a lot, but I do love Doctor Lisa for the parenting angle, because even if you just glance at her topics on the podcast, which is called Ask Lisa, it’s really specific things to parenting. What do you do if your friend is the one hosting parties? Or should? It’s actually no, that would be something I would cover.
Her angle would be should a parent host a party? You know, sometimes parents say, you know, oh, it’d be safer at my house. I mean, she’ll really dive into these things that. Just a more example I happened to see recently, but she’ll give a much more practical how to from a parent angle.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 42:40
For sure. For sure.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 42:41
She’s an incredible resource from the parenting lens, I agree. Well, thank you again so much Nina. This has been awesome. I so appreciate you sharing your time and expertise. And it was, again, as I told you, such a fun, such a pleasure to see you in person live doing your podcast the other day.
So thank you for including me.
Nina Badzin: 43:00
I love.
Nina Badzin: 43:00
It. I love that we could talk as adults. I last time I saw you, you were just a little girl.
Nina Badzin: 43:05
So it’s.
Nina Badzin: 43:06
Really fun for me.
Nina Badzin: 43:07
Really.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 43:08
It is really fun and amazing that we’re so old at the same time.
Nina Badzin: 43:11
Yes and fabulous.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 43:14
Everyone check out more episodes of our podcast, go to copingpartners.com and click on Podcast & Articles. And thank you, as always for tuning in.
Outro: 43:24
Thank you for listening to The Coping Podcast. We’ll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes and check out our podcast page at copingpartners.com.