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Dr. Doug Bolton: 23:11
But but here we are. We’re punishing kids for development issues of development. And this is where I think it can get really tricky, because all of a sudden, then we begin. Kids begin experiencing real shame. And and that that can really interfere with their sense of wellness if they, if they.
And then the anxiety that we have that all of a sudden getting into an ivy is better than getting into a state school and, and that their sense of worth is based on their ability to achieve, whether it be making the travel team or making three travel teams, or whether it be get it, getting it five on the AP class, or being in the top five fifth percentile of your SAT or Act scores.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:04
Absolutely.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 24:05
That that’s putting a ton of pressure on kids that that number one doesn’t. These things don’t lead to great outcomes. And the pressure itself undermines their ability to be resilient.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 24:16
Right. So we we’ve given some talks where we talk about process versus outcome and how parents can really you know, one thing that they can actually do is to really say, I loved the work you put into that project. You know, I love the you know, I name what specifically you’re noticing, as opposed to focusing on the grade or focusing on the art project or the actual outcome. And I think, you know, like you’re saying, both for kids who are struggling to meet these markers of achievement, you know, the way that it’s set up in the schools and for the kids who are actually achieving the markers of achievement, both benefit from this idea of really just kind of naming, you know, the hard work or what they’ve put into it, rather than focusing on the outcome because of sort of perfectionistic or perfectionism and the negatives, the toxic outcomes. Tell us a little bit about the perfectionistic sort of hamster wheel that I think a lot of people get stuck on.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 25:13
I again, I appreciate the sensitivity of the question right to be the that the kids who struggle to keep up are at risk for for for feeling shamed or kids who struggle to focus for 45 minutes. Kids whose motor run quicker, right? It’s harder for them to sit in school and focus. But the opposite is also true that when when kids begin to see their worth based on what they achieve. And this is, and I think as parents, we’d be surprised at how often we send these messages.
There’s a there’s research where they took it, where they asked kids. Well, they asked parents, you know, what’s the message you want to send your kids, whether they are whether you value achievement or kindness. And parents would say 94% of parents said, my kids, I communicate to my kids that kindness is the most important thing. They ask their kids. And 86% of those kids, those of those parents, said that their parents valued achievement more than kindness.
And we do this in all sorts of subtle ways. But what ends up happening is kids become they talk about achievement, addiction, that that there becomes a real fear if if my value is based on what I achieve. There’s a then there can be real fear and anxiety about doing things that where I might struggle. And so we see kids limiting their worlds because, oh, if I can’t get an A on that, I don’t want to take that class.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 27:00
They even or even not trying a new sport or an activity.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 27:03
Trying a new sport or feeling crushed if you’re not, if you don’t become captain, feeling crushed if you don’t, you know, you you know, we’ve as parents, we put all of it. You know, it’s not just going out and playing Little League baseball all of a sudden, you need to make the travel team. In order to make the travel team, you need to go to 6 a.m. hitting practice and maybe 8 p.m. pitching practice, right? And then the whole family is going to follow you to Davenport, Iowa, and in Grand Rapids, Michigan, every, every weekend. Because because all of a sudden there are all these messages that we say, your ability to do this is so important that we’re not going to go on a family vacation this year, and your sister is going to have to come along with us to all of these activities.
And and so there’s a lot of implicit ways that we say these things are important without realizing it. But here’s the thing that happens is that achievement, as you continue to achieve, it becomes scarcer and scarcer. So all of a sudden it’s, you know, when you have straight A’s and you’ve gotten great. You know, great scores on your all of your AP tests. Then you’ve got to get into a highly selective school.
And then it’s not good enough to get B’s and C’s in a highly selective school. You’ve got to get A’s in that highly selective school. And then you’ve got to get then if you want to go to law school, you’ve got to get into the best law school. It just doesn’t end. And so what they talk about is this hedonic treadmill.
And what happens is that we believe that that getting the promotion, we believe that getting into the college is enough. But what happens is whenever we achieve something we really like, the new car smell wears off. When we’ve got that, that new car we’ve always wanted, and all of a sudden there’s a nicer car driving down the road. What happens is it doesn’t. It gives us a brief.
A bump in our happiness. But then all of a sudden it leaves us wanting more again. And we want an even nicer car. We need an even better promotion. We need to get a better salary for kids.
We need to get not just into the best law school, but then I’ve got to get the best clerkship, and then I’ve got to be in the and and it doesn’t end. And falling short can be crushing. And so so so this is how you see that the idea of the hedonic treadmill is you’re working really hard, but you’re not getting anywhere. You’re not bumping your wellness or happiness. In fact, you’re undermining it, right?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 29:45
Yeah. It’s it’s a lot. And I think a lot of these kids and again, for sure at the high school level, if not even earlier, are sort of already starting to feel just that, that intense pressure. And it’s one thing to say the words like, we don’t care where you go to school, you’re going to be fine, but to also kind of work backwards even when they’re really little. And what kind of questions are you asking when they come home from school?
Like, I remember we talked to preschool teachers about what kind of questions can parents ask? And they can say, what kind thing did you do for someone else today? You know, not ask about again the spelling test grade or just anything. Again, more outcome oriented.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 30:27
Well, well. And there’s subtle ways that we do this. You can wherever you go to school is okay. But did you know that your your cousin Jake got into Harvard. Isn’t that amazing right.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, what an accomplishment.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 30:41
Yeah, right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 30:44
You know what do we you know do we do we keep the, the a the the tests where they got an A on.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 30:55
Put it on the refrigerator. Refrigerator.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 30:57
Right. It’s like there’s all sorts of these subtle ways. Yeah. I guess the other thing is that as much as we try, it’s not just parents.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 31:04
It’s right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 31:05
Schools are involved in this. Schools keep track of who goes to these highly selective schools. Right? These highly selective colleges. Yeah.
kids are a part of this as well. And so we can’t we can’t address this in a vacuum as we can do everything we can as parents, but we’re all breathing the same air and drinking the same water, and, and and in so many ways, it it’s putting pressure on our kids that’s making them less resilient, undermining their wellness instead of what we really believe we’re doing is giving them the jumpstart and the foundation to launch into a life of of wellness.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 31:44
Right. And we know, of course, right. We know especially there’s been an incredibly popular and wonderful book called The Anxious Generation, written by Jonathan Haidt. We know that one of the most important things we can do for our kids mental health is to basically allow them to develop resilience, right? And to stop bubble wrapping our kids and to allow them to develop distress tolerance skills.
And and yet. Right. Like, it sounds like what we’re sort of doing by creating these narrow ways of thinking about success and over structuring our kids. And, you know, it’s it’s undermining their ability to develop these skills. Can you tell us a little bit as parents, because I want to kind of switch now into the what can we do?
Section because I think, yeah, parents really, and educators too, who might be listening, really want to know what they can start to do now to help with this problem. Tell us a little bit about what you think we can do to help kids develop this resilience.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 32:47
Yeah, so so it’s an interesting thing, I think that just to go back to the problem first and then we’ll step into the solutions. I think that in so many ways it’s about us doing less, not more as parents. There’s a, you know, compared to the 1970s when I was growing up, you know, there were more double income families. So we’ve got parents who are working harder than they’ve ever worked before. Interestingly, they’re also spending more time as parents than we’ve ever spent before.
And so. So even though we’re spending more time at work and we’re also spending more time parenting, I think kids are getting 40 hours more parenting than they did in the 1970s. And and so I think that this has a couple of different things that happens in the, in the 19 in the 1990s, there was a whole theory and an important theory about self-esteem that if we want our kids to be, well, then they need to have self-esteem. Unfortunately, I think the way as as a society, we’ve misunderstood that, and we’ve tried to hack it and we’ve and we’ve and I like the you use the word distress tolerance. What happens?
I think the way we’ve understood that and the way at least the way we’ve acted on that research, is to say if our kids are distressed, then that undermines their self-esteem. And so we need to keep them from experiencing distress in order to boost, continue to boost their self-esteem, when in fact the opposite is true. It’s essential that our kids experience distress, and by experiencing distress, that’s the only way they can learn how to deal with it. But what happens is, as parents, because we’re so much more involved in their lives, I. I shared a graph like I’d never heard of a play date until until I became a parent.
And I’m like, what is a play date? Because we didn’t have those when I was a kid.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 34:53
Kids would just roam the neighborhood and come back for dinnertime.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 34:56
Exactly. And and but now, as adults, we’re structuring their time together. And the good news is we can teach them a lot of social skills and other things as we’re doing that. The bad news is that they don’t they aren’t learning these things themselves. And and so I like the anxious generation, especially the part about our overparenting of kids, our inability to tolerate their distress.
I think sometimes we experience when our kids are distressed that we’ve done something wrong, when in fact this is that. That what we know is the only way to learn how to deal with stress is to experience it. And and so and so in so many ways, a lot of this is is doing less, not more, when our kids are having are having a conflict with a teacher. Talking that through, I can’t remember who it was. Wendy.
I can’t remember her last name. She she wrote a book called The Blessings of a B.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 35:57
Oh, yes, of a skinned knee. Yes.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 36:00
And and and The Blessings of a Skinned Knee. Right. And what she talks about is the best thing that could happen for our kids is that they have a really hard fourth grade teacher, because that’s how they’re going to learn how to do this.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 36:11
They’re going to have a hard boss one day, a difficult.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 36:14
They’re going to struggle with other teachers in the future. But but I think what we end up doing as parents is to try and change the teacher.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 36:22
Yes.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 36:22
Instead of being able to say as long as it’s not toxic. Right. And Lisa Damore talks about this, is it intolerable or is it uncomfortable?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 36:33
Yeah. Yep.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 36:33
And so what we want kids to do is to experience discomfort and not rescue them from it, not jump in and try and tell them what to do and how to cope with it. But also it’s important that we’re present with them and being able to to just be present and say, this sounds really hard, right?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 36:49
You want to empathize with your child’s experience for sure, and sit with them in it, but not save them from it, not save them from it.
I know for me, as a parent, I have two girls and I know it’s been very reassuring when whenever something happens that’s not perfect, which is life, right? Any disappointment? Any, you know, anything like that? Just to for me to say to myself internally, okay. It’s a challenge, right?
And from this challenge they’re going to grow in some way. They’re going to develop a life skill which they will need. And so as opposed to just feeling horrible for them and being kind of like just to, to drowned out by that emotion, you know, because you’re empathic as a parent, it’s like you want to have some empathy, of course, and also to understand that you can’t save them and that this is actually going to help them in the scheme of their life.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 37:42
Right. And that but we’ve got to step back and be able to see that picture. And one of the things that I think worries us as parents is I think that we take what’s happening in this moment and we very quickly fast forward 10 to 15 years, and if my child doesn’t care that they got a B minus on a test, then how are they ever going to keep a job that they like right? When they’re how are they ever going to make it in college if I’m not on top of them? And so we have all of we fast forward.
And what we know is that there’s so much that changes in in this time and that, that it’s not an indication if if my child lies to me when they are five years old, doesn’t mean they’re going to be a serial liar, right? And they’ll never take responsibility.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:27
Right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 38:28
But but it’s easy for us to to feel that and believe that and then and then over involve ourselves to try and correct it.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:37
If we over worry, we over problem solve.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 38:39
Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 38:41
You told a story, Doug, in your book about. I think it was about your son Matthew maybe. Yeah. And how he was, you know, late to one of his internships. Can you kind of tell that story?
Because I think it’s a really good one to illustrate. You know, that these skills do develop over time, right?
Dr. Doug Bolton: 38:58
Well, the funny thing is that that I was that parent who was like, oh my gosh. So he he was able he was working as an inclusion aide at a camp, and he got the job as a sophomore. And I was so proud of him. And he’s so good with people. And so he so he got the job and he showed up 15 minutes late every day, and it drove me nuts.
And I think it drove folks at the camp nuts. Right. And I knew the director and and they’re like, yeah, he’s great. But he shows up late every day. And so I talked to him.
I’m like, why don’t why don’t you just leave 15 minutes early? Well, the thing is that that, you know, he knew how to tell time. But being able to be aware of time is developmental, and it takes a while to be able to to think, to notice time is elapsing right. To be able to plan ahead and know, oh, this is how much time I’ve been spending doing this. So I think, you know, we could ask him to leave early, but I don’t think he kept track of time very well.
You could put five watches on his arms and a clock on every wall, and he just wouldn’t think to check it, right. That’s just where he was at as a sophomore. Of course, his sister, she was always on time. She was always like it was, you know, everything was like clockwork, right? So he ends up being late and and and defensive whenever I would talk to him about it, you know, how is he going to hold down a job later like all these.
And so. So then the next summer, he. He got the job again, thankfully. And he used to run around barefoot all the time and he’d ride his bike to work. And so he’d show up on his bike, but without shoes about 2 or 2 days a week.
So then they’d have to send him home because he used to be right. And but he was there on time every day. He just forgot his shoes. And then by the time he was a senior, he was counselor of the year, right? Showing up on time with his shoes.
But it’s almost like you’re watching the rain slowly start to click together. right. And and just because it was slower for him didn’t mean it wasn’t going to happen. And I think that that’s a I’ve got a friend. His name is Dave Gleason and he wrote a great book.
At What Cost?: Defending Adolescent Development in Fiercely Competitive Schools. Right. And he developed this term called developmental empathy, which means what we want to do is we want to match what we’re asking kids to do with their brains development. Because whenever we ask them to do something that’s that they can’t handle, that’s what creates stress, right?
And I think that that’s what’s happening for a lot of kids is as we’ve increased the demands that we’re placing on kids in this idea that academic rigor is better.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 41:44
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 41:45
Some kids are able to keep up with that. But those kids then are on that hedonic treadmill that we worry about. Right. And the kids who can’t keep up are at risk of feeling extreme levels of shame.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 41:54
Right?
Dr. Doug Bolton: 41:55
And what we also know is that this push for academic achievement. This push for rigor has not helped us in the world standings of it has not improved kids ability to learn, right. But I think we get anxious that that all of a sudden we’re falling behind as a nation, as a school district, as a classroom, as a student.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 42:14
Yeah.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 42:14
And then we then we put on all this pressure to achieve more and to increase rigor. I want rigor to happen for kids, but it’s because their brains are ready, right? And they’re curious and they’re engaged.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 42:26
And it’s a match for their skill set and their ability. And I think about that in terms of the the high schools, you know, gives the middle school recommendations of what classes they should be in. And, and every year, you know, parents write angry emails and they want to opt up, not not when they’re given a choice. But really like they just want to say, I know he’s going to do this anyway.
And they’re very thoughtful about how they respond and just sort of guiding the parents to say, do you want him to be, you know, really not only working really hard but also not feeling good about the out the outcome, you know, because it’s not a match. And and it’d be so nice if parents could just relax a little bit and have confidence that whether they’re in the high this class or not, they’re going to find what they’re good at and hopefully enjoy learning and and work hard and be able to to do well in what they like, which isn’t always, like you said, obvious in high school or even in college.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 43:21
That’s right, that’s right. That the that the in an engaged brain is way better than a stressed brain.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 43:27
Yes.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 43:28
And that they’re going to learn more. There’s a I think I shared this at the CATCH event, but there’s a a guy who tweeted out, he said, I got a 2.1 my first semester in in physics, and I thought I wasn’t meant for the sciences. And he said, and this week I landed the rover on Mars, and I’m creating a new one for Venus or something like that, right? Or or Saturn, wherever they’re going next. And and he said, I, I never would have imagined that this is where I would be.
And and what we know is that that his grades weren’t important. His his engagement was and and and so that’s a, that’s a mistake I think we can often make and and what, what I want, what I would want for my kids is that they’re engaged and curious. Yes. That’s what that’s what drives learning. And that’s what drives development.
Not are they getting A’s and B’s and the hardest classes we can put them in?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 44:31
Absolutely.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 44:31
Are they on the track for an Ivy League school?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 44:35
Absolutely.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 44:35
That these that that that doesn’t these things don’t pay off in the ways that that we believe they will. And in fact, more often than not, they undermine our kids ability to feel successful and healthy and well.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 44:49
Absolutely.
So this kind of this next question kind of weaves your book in a little bit, too. Again, Untethered. What would you say? For again, both parents and educators, is an important ingredient to helping kids achieve wellness, right? Happiness, wellness.
You know, things that parents can do and educators can do in whether it’s at home or in the classroom.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 45:19
So the first thing that comes to mind, one of the things I loved about writing Untethered was I include a lot of student stories, and there’s so many. And that’s what I loved about the work, was that there were so many kids who seemed to be in crisis, you know, they needed they not only was were they struggling, you know, academically, but they were told they needed to go to an entirely different school in order to to meet their emotional and behavioral needs. And they were they were way off of outside of the the path that we often see as the the path toward success. And it’s it’s was amazing to watch these students come back after they graduated and come back with their families and come back and talk about how much they enjoyed college. Talk about how much they.
Talk about their families. Talk about how important a sense of belonging was that they experienced at North Shore Academy, and that that was a difference maker, that that North Shore Academy we did not have, you know, we were not academically rigorous. And yet we had kids going, students going on to get their PhDs later on. It’s not the content that matters. What it what matters is our ability to create the communities where kids can thrive.
And so I guess that that’s what my book is about. That’s what my work at North Shore Academy was about, is about how can we embed our kids in communities that are first and foremost emotionally connected and focus on emotional regulation, our ability to manage the stresses without becoming stressed. Because what happens in so many families when kids struggle as a as adults, we then get dysregulated, we become anxious, and then we become so focused on their success, we may be more likely to yell at them, say things to them that are hurtful. You know, why is it that you can’t do it when your sister can do it? Your sister was able to do it.
Why is it you can’t? You can’t play baseball if you haven’t finished this assignment, whatever it may be, we become reactive in those moments. And so what we want to do is my hope is that we can have schools that focus first and foremost on belonging and, and, and emotional regulation so that we can, because what we know is that this is what brings our brains alive, is is being connected to other people and being emotionally regulated. Then we can learn, then we can fully engage. And so the more we can create those communities for our kids, the more we can embed those our kids in those communities, the better.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 48:11
You talk in the book, too, about being less punitive and not, you know, just kind of being behaviorist in how we manage the unpleasant behaviors that some of the kids present with, but really kind of looking at it more from an attachment lens and a connection. Can you give maybe one? I know we’re running out of time, but maybe one case example of a kiddo who is struggling in your time as, as you know, at the academy and kind of what you saw kind of shape, you know the outcome differently.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 48:41
Yeah, I’ll tell the story. My son Matthew.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 48:44
Thank you.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 48:45
So Matthew was. You know, everything came easy to him in elementary in the first part of middle school. But then, you know, all of a sudden, I like to say I could smell, I could sniff something was wrong. Right? And and there it was.
It was his eighth grade year. I woke up in the middle of the night smelling something burning. And I ran downstairs. And there was Matthew at three in the morning, pulling out paper from from the oven, trying to make it look like a historical document, you know, kind of browning the edges and everything. And he had like, he had a project for weeks we didn’t know about, and he was just starting it the night before it was due.
It was the first of many all nighters that he would feel the need to to pull. But what happened was he felt shame. He he struggled to organize himself because his all those executive functioning skills were just slower to develop. It’s not that they didn’t develop. They were slower to develop.
And so it was harder for him to plan things. And so he’d show up as a freshman and sophomore. He’d become anxious if he didn’t get the work done. And it was really hard for him to get the work done on time and in the way. So he’d either scribble it in the hallway right before he went in and go in late, or he would skip class altogether because he wasn’t prepared.
He felt ashamed of going to class without his assignment done. Well, what happens in schools is, you know, we punish that behavior to try and get it to work better. The thing about punishments and incentives, those have been debunked for decades. 70 years. We we’ve known that these things don’t work and the research has just come out.
And yet this is still our go to strategy is to punish when things don’t go wrong, instead of seeing it as an issue of development. So you know when you are late for class or you don’t show up at class, you get detentions. And so I’ll ask people like, how many times would you need to give a detention before you realize that it wasn’t working because it didn’t work for Matthew?
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 50:52
It’s not changing his behavior.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 50:53
Right, exactly. It doesn’t change his behavior because the issue is not compliance. The issue is that his executive functioning skills aren’t developed enough. And so? So he ended up senior year.
He’s about to graduate. And he comes to me and he says, dad, I achieved something I didn’t think I was ever going to achieve. And I said, you know, I’m thinking National Honor Society. I’m like, you know, you’re speaking at graduation. What is it?
And he says, I hit 500. I’m like 500. What? He says, I got 500 detentions.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 51:22
Oh my God.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 51:23
And it’s in his high school career. He got 500 detentions.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 51:26
Oh, if detention worked.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 51:28
You know, it’s interesting. We take a look at the recidivism rate for people following release from state prisons. And it’s amazing that three quarters end up reoffending.
It’s because we’re trying to solve the wrong problem. It’s not an issue of motivation for Matthew. Punishments and incentives work when kids are unmotivated.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 51:49
Right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 51:49
But it’s almost never an issue of motivation, right? It’s almost always an issue of development.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 51:54
Right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 51:55
We always. So all of a sudden we pile shame on to these issues that they’re already feeling shame about.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 52:02
Right.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 52:03
And so all of a sudden he’s having to attend detentions for every day. He’d have a lunch detention instead of being with his friends.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 52:12
Right. Which doesn’t help with connection and belonging and feeling loved and all of that. Oh my.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 52:17
Goodness. Exactly.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 52:18
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s again, it’s just so wonderful to get to talk to you about all of your ideas. I hope that everyone listening will will either read or, as I did, listen on audible.
I loved that it was your voice that was really cool.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 52:36
Yeah. It was. It was fun to do.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 52:38
Yeah, really cool to to his book Untethered. And my last question is just if you have any favorite resources for us, whether they be podcasts or books, anything to help parents kind of learn more about this topic. I guess we kind of covered two topics, but both, you know, the topic that that you speak about more in your book, as well as just the idea of helping kids to kind of decrease the pressure they’re feeling about attending these elitist college and being the first violin and so forth.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 53:09
Yeah, no, it’s a it’s a really good question. You know, I love Dan Siegel and Tina Payne Bryson’s book, The Power of Showing Up. I think that that’s a it’s a it’s a quick read, actually, but filled with all sorts of ways of, you know, of, you know, you were saying earlier what are some what are some things we can do? And I think it’s filled with ideas of, of ways that we can approach parenting about how we can show up, as opposed to how can we continue to push our kids in ways that may be undermining for them? And so I guess I would I would start with that with that book, now that I as.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 53:53
Is that the same author who did I know Dan Siegel is, but is that other author the same one who did parenting from the inside out?
Dr. Doug Bolton: 53:59
Yes, I think so. Okay.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:00
That was an amazing, very like user friendly, hands on kind of book with ideas for parents to use right away, too.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 54:08
Yeah.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:09
And any other podcasts or any other things you recommend?
Dr. Doug Bolton: 54:13
You know, it’s a well, I kind of I love the Hidden Brain podcast. So that’s that’s one of the ones that I often listen to. It’s not so much for kids and parenting. And I, you know, this podcast.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:30
Thank you.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 54:31
Of course.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:34
And also your website I was going to say tell tell us the name of your website.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 54:37
Oh it’s www.drdougbolton.com.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:40
Okay. I thought it was pretty easy. Is it doctor?
Dr. Doug Bolton: 54:42
Yeah, doctor. Doug Bolton.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 54:45
Perfect. We will put that also in the transcript. Now, of course. Thank you so much, Dr. Bolton, for everything. Please check out Dr. Bolton’s book, Untethered. And everyone check out more episodes of our podcast.
Please go to coping artners.com and click on Podcast & Articles. And as always, thank you for tuning in. And thank you, Dr. Bolton for being here.
Dr. Doug Bolton: 55:09
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a what a great conversation. I’m so grateful for your questions and the spirit and wisdom you’ve brought to this conversation.
Thank you.
Dr. Leigh Weisz: 55:19
Likewise.
Outro: 55:20
Thank you for listening to The Coping Podcast. We’ll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes and check out our podcast page at copingpartners.com.